Don Pedro Relicensing

On Episode 3 of the TID Water & Power Podcast we sit down with TID’s Michael Cooke to discuss the Relicensing of the Don Pedro Project. 

Much like the way you need a license to drive a vehicle, Hydropower facilities like the Don Pedro Project require licenses from the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission to operate. Only, waiting in line at the DMV would be a treat compared to the hydropower Relicensing process in which TID, in partnership with the Modesto Irrigation District, has been working on for more than a decade. 

We’ll dive into what the relicensing process is, why it’s important to the District and our customers, what we’ve accomplished in the process thus far, and what’s next. 

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Transcript

00;00;06;08 - 00;00;24;27
Speaker 1
Hello and welcome to the TID Water and Power Podcast. I'm your host, Constance Anderson. And on this month's episode, I'm joined by TID Director of Water Resources and Regulatory Affairs, Michael Cooke, to discuss the relicensing of the Don Pedro project, much like the way you need a license to drive a vehicle.

00;00;25;05 - 00;00;44;03
Speaker 1
Hydropower facilities like the Don Pedro Project require licenses from the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission to operate. Only waiting in line at the DMV would be a treat compared to the hydropower relicensing process that TID in partnership with Modesto Irrigation District has been working on for more than a decade.

00;00;44;21 - 00;00;57;03
Speaker 1
In this episode, we'll dove into what the relicensing process is, why it's important to the district and our customers, what we've accomplished in the process thus far and what's next. Michael, thank you for joining us.

00;00;58;08 - 00;01;00;08
Speaker 2
Very welcome, Constance. And glad to be here.

00;01;00;29 - 00;01;09;07
Speaker 1
Excellent. Why don't you start out by giving us a little bit of your background? What is your current role with the district and then your role within relicensing specifically?

00;01;09;21 - 00;01;25;10
Speaker 2
Okay. As you mentioned, I'm the director of Water Resources and Regulatory Affairs. As such, I touch two main areas, really the relicensing of Don Pedro, as well as groundwater issues and the implementation of the Sustainable Groundwater Management Act.

00;01;25;11 - 00;01;46;24
Speaker 2
We're working on our first groundwater sustainability plan right now. So my role is to work on both surface water issues and groundwater issues as they pertain to the district. In terms of relicensing, I'm part of a large team that I kind of held up on behalf of Turlock Irrigation District with a number of consultants, attorneys, staff and

00;01;46;24 - 00;01;52;01
Speaker 2
others as we work with the various regulatory agencies on getting a new license for Don Pedro.

00;01;53;12 - 00;01;58;08
Speaker 1
So when we refer to relicensing, what what exactly are we talking about?

00;01;58;29 - 00;02;16;00
Speaker 2
Okay. Well, under the Federal Power Act, entities operating hydroelectric generating facilities have to get approval from the federal government. The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, that we often call FERC, the federal agency that licenses hydroelectric projects like Don Pedro.

00;02;16;23 - 00;02;27;23
Speaker 2
The Don Pedro Project received this initial authorization for construction operation in 1966. The license was for 50 years and expired on April 30th, 2016.

00;02;29;01 - 00;02;36;05
Speaker 1
Okay. So if the license expired roughly five years ago, how are the districts still operating the Don Pedro project?

00;02;36;17 - 00;02;52;04
Speaker 2
Well, fortunately, one of the provisions in the Power Act is that we get to operate on an annual license on a year to year basis, which means we maintain our existing requirements and regulations kind of indefinitely until relicensing is completed.

00;02;53;10 - 00;02;56;25
Speaker 1
Okay. And who are the actual licenses of Don Pedro?

00;02;57;12 - 00;03;15;13
Speaker 2
Well, there's two of us, Turlock Irrigation District and Modesto Irrigation District. We hold the license for Don Pedro, and we're responsible for the costs of relicensing. And we do kind of have a partner in the process. And that's the city and county of San Francisco is a very important partner, partner with us.

00;03;15;19 - 00;03;36;28
Speaker 2
They many people don't know. They funded 51% of the cost of constructing new Don Pedro in the late sixties. That's an agreement the three parties signed in 1966 is San Francisco has a 570,000 acre feet water bank in Don Pedro, which allows them to better manage storage in their three Sierra reservoirs.

00;03;37;20 - 00;03;56;10
Speaker 2
So as the only other partner on the Tuolumne, San Francisco is also involved with Mid and Turlock Irrigation District and some of the scientific research the districts have been conducting through the relicensing process, particularly fisheries studies. And just so everybody knows, we have a cost sharing agreement with San Francisco and Modesto Irrigation District, so everybody pays

00;03;56;10 - 00;03;58;14
Speaker 2
their fair share of the costs of relicensing.

00;04;00;10 - 00;04;11;18
Speaker 1
So if we have now an annual license since the original 50 year license expired, why is it important that we obtain this new long term license?

00;04;12;19 - 00;04;25;13
Speaker 2
The goal is to create some certainty for our growers. We have by law, we have to get a license and being kind of on probationary status or a year to year basis is not a very stable state of affairs.

00;04;26;00 - 00;04;37;27
Speaker 2
So our goal is to get the best license we can, allows Turlock Irrigation District to continue its vital functions of the community while recognizing our key role and being responsible stewards of the Tuolumne River.

00;04;40;12 - 00;04;47;29
Speaker 1
And in going through this process, what would we consider a favorable length of license?

00;04;48;24 - 00;05;08;16
Speaker 2
Well, ideally, we'd get a 40 to 50 year license. I think that's that's possible. Again, the goal of that is just to create some certainty for the district and its growers and its customers. It's almost like they're very responsible and smart and resourceful people.

00;05;09;05 - 00;05;22;05
Speaker 2
It's like facing a medical diagnosis. They're saying, just tell it to me straight and let me deal with it from there. And so if we can get a license and we say this is what we have to deal with for the next 40 years, that gives them a longer term outlook.

00;05;22;05 - 00;05;27;18
Speaker 2
They can start making some informed business decisions from there and create a degree of certainty in everything we do.

00;05;28;13 - 00;05;39;12
Speaker 1
Not make sense of. If you own the home and you have a mortgage, you're likely to feel better about doing the upgrades to keep up that home as opposed to if you're renting month to month. That makes sense.

00;05;39;16 - 00;05;40;14
Speaker 2
That's exactly right.

00;05;41;04 - 00;05;44;23
Speaker 1
And what if we didn't relicensed Don Pedro? Is that an option?

00;05;45;17 - 00;06;05;06
Speaker 2
No. I mean, the license for Don Pedro is the district's very existence. It's the heart and soul of what we do. Don Pedro is an incredibly valuable resource. We, Turlock Irrigation District, has 150,000 acres of the best farmland in the world, not just in California, not just the United States, but in the world.

00;06;05;06 - 00;06;27;20
Speaker 2
We have 5800 growers, 100,000 electrical customers we generate, which generates 5 billion and in economic output, $750 million in labor income, 19,000 jobs TID is publicly owned. Don Pedro belongs to the people of this region. We're a publicly owned irrigation district.

00;06;27;21 - 00;06;33;06
Speaker 2
It's kind of part of our DNA for the area. So it's a reason we're here and we want to keep it.

00;06;34;10 - 00;06;48;14
Speaker 1
That makes sense. So the Don Pedro project obviously brings a lot of value to our area and is made up of many different parts. Would it be an option to just not operate the power plant portion of the Don Pedro project?

00;06;49;07 - 00;07;03;09
Speaker 2
Well, the the hydroelectric facility is also an integral part of what we do as a district, particularly in terms of our goals of providing low cost power, as well as complying with the carbon free requirements from the state of California.

00;07;04;04 - 00;07;21;07
Speaker 2
Don Pedros Incredibly flexible asset. I do is basically a large battery and we can tap into that power supply in an instant. And even even without the power, we'd still have a diversion dam on the river, which is subject to a number of state and federal regulations.

00;07;21;24 - 00;07;36;28
Speaker 2
So not being subject to the Federal Power Act by eliminating the hydro facility does not grant the districts some type of immunity from regulatory agencies. In fact, it could even be more challenging. Working with FERC is a good thing.

00;07;36;28 - 00;07;51;25
Speaker 2
They they're kind of like a ombudsman or a ringmaster in terms of working with all the various agencies to help us navigate through the relicensing process. And it just makes sense working with FERC to do that.

00;07;52;25 - 00;08;09;10
Speaker 1
Well, I mean, it makes sense everything that you've laid out for us as to why getting this new licenses is so important. Let's take a quick look at sort of the timeline of the relicensing process. So TID and MID began the relicensing process in 2010.

00;08;09;11 - 00;08;09;26
Speaker 1
Is that right?

00;08;10;06 - 00;08;34;10
Speaker 2
That's correct. And so by 2011, working with FERC, they provided us with a list of special studies they wanted the districts to conduct as part of the relicensing effort. So in total, we worked on 35 studies, 20 related to water and aquatic resources, nine regarding terrestrial resources in four recreational resources and two on cultural resources.

00;08;35;22 - 00;08;53;22
Speaker 2
There's a number of paths to relicensing. And what we did, we chose what's called the Integrated Licensing Process or ILP route, which is a very open and collaborative process. It allows us to collaborate and agree with various agencies in the public before we submit our application.

00;08;54;04 - 00;09;10;00
Speaker 2
So the public and the regulatory agencies helped us define the scope of work for those 35 studies I mentioned and through a number of public meetings and workshops and written comments, we worked on those 35 studies over a number of years.

00;09;10;26 - 00;09;30;10
Speaker 2
We recognized and the board recognizes there's a number of stakeholders on the Tuolumne River, not just state and federal regulatory agencies, conservation, environmental groups, recreational groups, the public and other interested parties. So we worked all those groups over, over about a five year period to put those 35 studies together.

00;09;32;05 - 00;09;42;28
Speaker 1
How does a lot of collaboration and and patience, I would imagine, to try and as you referred earlier, to the ringmaster, to try and bring all those different interests together. Wow.

00;09;44;08 - 00;09;59;21
Speaker 2
That's that's correct. And again, but that's the whole point of the integrated licensing process to bring everybody together to work in an open, open dialog, to work through the studies and provide that information to FERC. So one of the wrinkles is work through this.

00;09;59;21 - 00;10;25;01
Speaker 2
This process is in 2012, FERC issued an order determining that the licensing of La Grange had to happen. So La Grange have been generating power, I think, since about 1924 and had never had a license from FERC. But it did meet the criteria in the end of needing a license because of its location on the river, occupying

00;10;25;01 - 00;10;39;13
Speaker 2
some federal lands. And we did do some upgrades in the eighties, so it was amended after 1935. So in 2014, we added La Grange to the relicensing process for Don Pedro.

00;10;40;12 - 00;10;49;09
Speaker 1
Okay. So what are the differences, then, between the La Grange project and Don Pedro project when it comes to the licensing process?

00;10;49;28 - 00;11;04;15
Speaker 2
At the end of the day, they're their separate projects, but they're so close together on the river, their impacts are about the same, and so are environmental studies. And other studies looked at the impacts of La Grange and Don Pedro at the same time.

00;11;06;01 - 00;11;18;04
Speaker 2
So that was the easiest way to do it. So while we lumped the two projects together for the purpose of doing the special studies, we will actually get two separate licenses, one for La Grange and one for Don Pedro.

00;11;19;25 - 00;11;37;26
Speaker 1
All right. So you referred earlier to the various studies that were conducted on topics ranging from water quality to fish and wildlife recreation, tribal resources, as you mentioned. Tell us a little bit more about the purpose of these studies and how did we use that information?

00;11;38;23 - 00;12;02;10
Speaker 2
So the goal of the relicensing process is to see what impacts the project we call the projects Don pedro and La Grange have on the environment and other resources. So for instance, one of the concerns is the impact of having two dams on the river and the impact to native fish species, particularly migratory fish species like Chinook

00;12;02;29 - 00;12;19;25
Speaker 2
salmon. So. We, too, are very concerned about the number of salmon on the Tuolumne. We feel there's a number of stressors on those fish that have impacted their numbers over the years. So one of the things we did was what's called a predation study over the years.

00;12;19;26 - 00;12;45;02
Speaker 2
non-Native species or non-native fish species have been added to the Delta and the Tuolumne River, and these non non-native species actually feed on native species. So particularly in our case, striped bass, largemouth bass, smallmouth bass actually feed on young Chinook salmon, and that's limiting their migration out to the river, eventually ever coming back for spawning.

00;12;45;03 - 00;13;06;14
Speaker 2
In fact, the analysis we showed that non-native bass eat more than 90% of juvenile salmon before they even reached the San Joaquin River. So to and we saw very much so this year we had a number of juvenile salmon, but literally only a handful made it to Grayson where they told me River meets up with the San

00;13;06;14 - 00;13;25;08
Speaker 2
Joaquin River. So one of these special studies was kind of cool and not to get too nerdy, but we take groups of 300 salmon from a hatchery and said and put acoustic tags on them or photo mark them and then basically follow them as they move down the river and try to figure out what happened to them

00;13;25;21 - 00;13;48;14
Speaker 2
What we found out, based on various conditions and various flow conditions in different days, 93 to 90% never made it to the San Joaquin River. Wow. So when they were released near Waterford and never made it to the San Joaquin and and so part of that study included fishing for striped bass, investigating the stomach contents, where, lo

00;13;48;14 - 00;14;06;21
Speaker 2
and behold, we found quite a bit of native salmon. So we see that as one of the challenges. So one of the things we're offering as part of our relicensing process is to put some predation measures in place to try and limit the number of non-native species on the wall of me, which would then hopefully reduce the

00;14;06;21 - 00;14;14;27
Speaker 2
amount of predation and increase the number of salmon that migrate back and forth to the ocean and back to the quality. So we're excited about that.

00;14;16;05 - 00;14;31;09
Speaker 1
So it sounds like these studies really kind of helped give us the foundational information we needed to make the best well route, most well-rounded decisions as to how to be responsible stewards of the river.

00;14;31;27 - 00;14;49;17
Speaker 2
That's correct. Both the TID and MID boards were very firm from the outset that they wanted the best available science and which FERC and others could make their decisions. So they really do a thorough job of going out there, finding out what the data gaps are, what additional analysis we we need to do, how we can update

00;14;49;17 - 00;14;57;20
Speaker 2
The studies have been done so far to really provide the best information we can to the decision makers as they work on the new license for Dam Pedro.

00;14;58;23 - 00;15;03;13
Speaker 1
And who actually completed these studies, did the media and tried to do this in-house or.

00;15;04;09 - 00;15;23;10
Speaker 2
No. This is very specialized and complicated analysis, using some of the best fish biologists in the country and in particular in California. So the districts have been contracting with a number of consultants and sub consultants over the last ten years to put this put these special studies together.

00;15;25;04 - 00;15;40;12
Speaker 1
Right. So then they took this information, as you said, 35 plus studies of all various types and developed a comprehensive management plan for the Tuolumne River, which is now known as the Tuolumne River Management Plan. How has that plan been used?

00;15;41;16 - 00;16;06;29
Speaker 2
Okay. So as you mentioned, the Tuolumne management plan is is a comprehensive plan to to develop a balanced and sustainable and achievable plan for the river to improve ideally, primarily fishery conditions. And that information then was wrapped into what was called our amended final license application for we provided to FERC in 2016 is the results for

00;16;06;29 - 00;16;26;09
Speaker 2
our study is our license application. Use this analysis to do your own environmental analysis and also use this as a basis for conditions for our license. So if you remember, a number of years ago, TID and MID had a campaign and the charity campaign was worth your fight.

00;16;26;27 - 00;16;41;15
Speaker 2
Well, we're dealing with the state of California with some very prescriptive, increased river flow requirements that came out of their 2018 update to the Bay Delta Plan. And we really felt that and even the state board recognizes, too.

00;16;41;15 - 00;17;01;09
Speaker 2
But it just by requiring additional flows on the river, you're not really solving the entire problem of these, say, for instance, the declining salmon population. You really have to take an ecosystem based approach or ecosystem based management of the river rather than rigidly applied set of rules and terms and conditions.

00;17;01;26 - 00;17;16;12
Speaker 2
So it's part of the management plan. We looked at volume of water flow, the timing of that flow, you know, more flow in the spring is better. Some summer flows are less important. How do we improve habitat on the on the Tuolumne?

00;17;16;12 - 00;17;38;00
Speaker 2
Just putting more flow on the river if there's no additional habitat or fish can spawn and grow. And then, you know, larger juvenile salmon actually improves the survival rate. So if we can create floodplains or habitat on the Tuolumne where fish can hang out, grow, get big before they take that, a journey out to the ocean

00;17;38;00 - 00;17;52;18
Speaker 2
will improve the number of salmon on there and things like improving gravel for spawning and other construction projects. So again, as I mentioned, predation is a huge issue. So could be constructs and predation facilities to reduce the amount of non-native species.

00;17;53;06 - 00;18;11;09
Speaker 2
And again, this is fits in with kind of what a lot of people are talking about now, right now, which is the concept of adaptive management. So adapting the management of the river on a yearly or monthly or even a day to day basis to maximize your investments in the river to produce the best outcome for the

00;18;11;09 - 00;18;27;00
Speaker 2
fish. And again, we're all concerned about the loss of the salmon on the Tuolumne. It's really it's kind of death by a thousand cuts. There's a number of factors that have resulted in salmon decline. Climate change, the food web in the delta.

00;18;27;16 - 00;18;44;02
Speaker 2
The predation. Ocean conditions. The lack of lack of available food in the delta. Overfishing, a number of things. So looking at all those factors, not just river flows as a means to improve fish conditions on the quality.

00;18;45;01 - 00;19;02;04
Speaker 1
I mean, from the start, the the gold mining era kind of decimated some of the areas of the river bottom right, which kind of took away some of the those habitats and would be what the projects in the in the Tuolumne river management plan are looking to support and to to mediate.

00;19;02;24 - 00;19;21;22
Speaker 1
But now these aren't just ideas or theories that have been discovered through these studies that are listed as, you know, facts of the plan. These are actually there are projects that are listed in the plan that TID and MID intend to carry out.

00;19;21;23 - 00;19;22;10
Speaker 1
Is that right?

00;19;22;24 - 00;19;44;07
Speaker 2
That's correct. The cost of the Tuolumne River management plan is about $158 million, what we're estimating. But I think for the first 20 years of the of the license, and that's a mixture of capital improvements and then management of those capital improvements as well as monitoring and science on the rivers is a massive investment of $158 million

00;19;44;20 - 00;19;58;02
Speaker 2
that we see is very important as a means to improve fishery conditions on the Tuolumne. So that's that's kind of the purpose of the plan to give us that road map forward to improve the Tuolumne River.

00;20;00;10 - 00;20;16;01
Speaker 1
So the Tuolumne River Management Plan informed our amended final license application, and that's with FERC. And then it also served as the basis for the voluntary agreement negotiations with the state. Is that correct?

00;20;16;26 - 00;20;29;21
Speaker 2
Yes, definitely to that. That same science was used for that situation. So let me go back and maybe explain a little bit what the voluntary agreement negotiations are. So I must say Water Board was updating the Bay Delta plan.

00;20;30;13 - 00;20;51;06
Speaker 2
They knew their only authority was water rights, so they could only improve water quality in the delta by adjusting people's water rights as basically saying, hey,TID and MID, put more water in the river. But as I mentioned before, ecosystem conditions are a result of a number of factors, not just flow and flows, just one of them.

00;20;51;20 - 00;21;13;05
Speaker 2
So they reached out to the various agencies on the Merced,Tuolumne,and Stanislaus, and said, Look, to make this Bay Delta plan more robust, could you come up and work with us on other improvements to the system that we can't require because we only require flow requirements, but other improvements like habitat, like funding for science

00;21;13;21 - 00;21;32;12
Speaker 2
, the things that you can do to improve fishery conditions. So that's what we did. And in 2018 we got approval or from the Department of Water Resources or the Natural Resources Secretary, I should say. We got approval from the head of California Fish and Wildlife who supported the plan, but unfortunately that plan was not adopted or that

00;21;32;12 - 00;21;51;09
Speaker 2
voluntary agreement was not adopted by the State Water Board, and they improved. They approved their Bay Delta plan up there instead. But they said, hey, you know, keep negotiating, stay at the table and see what else you can do and TID'S stayed at the table for the last three years, we're still we want to stay at that

00;21;51;09 - 00;22;00;24
Speaker 2
table and negotiate something that's good for the environment, fits in with the state's goals, and is also good for Turlock Irrigation District and its partners.

00;22;02;02 - 00;22;23;05
Speaker 1
Okay. So let's take a look at then the timeline of both our state and our federal engagement on on this process. So again, 2010, the relicensing process begins and then 2012 was the first time that the State Water Resources Control Board issued their SED.

00;22;23;10 - 00;22;23;25
Speaker 1
Is that right?

00;22;24;00 - 00;22;41;07
Speaker 2
That's when they started working on their substitute environmental document, which is their environmental document to support the analysis in their Bay Delta plan update. And that original SED, as we call it, a substitute environmental document requested 30% and impaired flows.

00;22;41;08 - 00;22;58;09
Speaker 2
The concept of that is if there were no dams on the river, flow would be unimpaired. It would be nothing to stop it. And so what they wanted to see was at least 30% of the flow going down the river rather than some of it being held back or impounded behind the dams in the various reservoirs along

00;22;58;09 - 00;23;16;09
Speaker 2
the Tuolumne. So that's what happened in 2012 and went back and forth. So you got this you got the state water board working on the Bay Delta Plan update the same time TID working on relicensing. And every now and then their paths would cross when it came to issues that were of interest to the state water board

00;23;17;20 - 00;23;38;13
Speaker 2
. And so in 2014, if the final license agreement for Don Pedro in 2016, the State updated the SED and increased their unimpaired flow demand to 40% from 30% up to 40%. Wow. We thought that was not really based on scientific findings or with consideration of other mitigation measures.

00;23;39;00 - 00;23;58;14
Speaker 2
In fact, there's a really good table in the substitute environmental document that lays out the potential increases in salmon or Chinook salmon if various flow regimes were implemented and you could see it 20, 30, 40, 60%. It wasn't a significant increase in the number of salmon on the river.

00;23;59;20 - 00;24;08;28
Speaker 2
Again goes back to our point flow is only one leg of the stool. We have to look at other things. If you really want to improve conditions for salmon on the river.

00;24;09;08 - 00;24;12;15
Speaker 1
And you said that that was a chart that is in their report.

00;24;12;24 - 00;24;13;04
Speaker 2
Right.

00;24;13;28 - 00;24;25;17
Speaker 1
It's not that we're in disagreement on this. It's not that TID is in disagreement with the state water board because it's they're clearly coming to some of the same findings that we did in the studies that we performed.

00;24;25;20 - 00;24;41;29
Speaker 2
Right. That's correct. So that lays out the total adult production of four and Chinook salmon from year to year based on different flow regimes, starting at the base case, going all the way up to 60% and impaired flow.

00;24;42;19 - 00;25;01;00
Speaker 2
And so just to give you a flavor, so this is for the Merced, Stanislaus and Tuolumne River is for Three Rivers. So under the base case right now, between 1994 and 2009, on average, 11,373 salmon were a return to the river.

00;25;01;18 - 00;25;15;28
Speaker 2
If you added 40% and impaired flow, it goes up to 12,476. So you're talking of an increase of about 1100 salmon between those three rivers with 40% and impaired flows.

00;25;16;18 - 00;25;25;20
Speaker 1
And that water then for the limited amount of salmon that you're assisting that amount of water than is lost for other other purposes.

00;25;25;26 - 00;25;37;12
Speaker 2
Right. And that was the whole point Worth Your Fight campaign. That's almost double the amount of water that's in the river right now. And all that does is increase the number of fish by 1100 in total of three rivers.

00;25;37;16 - 00;26;01;27
Speaker 2
While the analysis done by Turlock Irrigation District at the time was that, you know, in the MID, TID area with 40% and impaired flows, there would be a $1.6 million loss of economic output, the loss of $167 million in farm gate revenue, loss of $330 million in farm labor income, and the loss of six and a half thousand

00;26;01;27 - 00;26;22;06
Speaker 2
jobs. So there's a significant impact on the districts just to increase the number of salmon, but, you know, by about 10%. And again, we feel like there's a better way to do that. It's more balanced. That could actually be better for the river, better for the ecosystem, and obviously better for the region.

00;26;23;02 - 00;26;34;01
Speaker 1
That goes to the benefit of all stakeholders, not just farmers, not just the fisheries, not just TID and MID, but the entire community that feels the effects of that.

00;26;34;22 - 00;26;53;09
Speaker 2
I mean, that's correct. You still remember some of the largest employers in Turlock, for instance, are food processors. So it's Blue Diamond and foster farms and California dairies. So it's not just what's happening out there on the farms and ranches, but those commodities then come into town, are processed and bring in a much higher value and then

00;26;53;19 - 00;27;10;19
Speaker 2
used for obviously very important food commodities. So it's this kind of vertical integration that is these cumulative effects. When you impact, you know, the farm gate, it's not just where you have an impact. It's a knock on effect throughout the community.

00;27;11;21 - 00;27;23;04
Speaker 1
Absolutely. Okay. So then going back to our timeline, we had, as you mentioned, the Worth Your Fight campaign and in 2016. And then? Then what happened?

00;27;24;10 - 00;27;43;24
Speaker 2
But at the same time, we are still in negotiations on a voluntary settlement agreement, as I mentioned right then, to try and find a way forward where Bay Delta plan update and SED could be adopted. That would be great for the river, great for the salmon, and also good for the districts trying to find that middle ground

00;27;43;25 - 00;28;08;05
Speaker 2
there or best case scenario. And but in those negotiations, as I mentioned, we did get approval from the director of Natural Resource or natural resources secretary, as well as the head of California Fish and Wildlife. The state water board did not approve the agreement we we put forward or the conditions we offered, which was additional flow, additional

00;28;08;06 - 00;28;28;28
Speaker 2
investments in habitat, additional investments in science, and instead adopted the Bay Delta Plan in 2018. And the SED that went along with that and said, this is this is what California would like to do in terms of of California thinks is the best way to improve conditions in the delta water quality in the Delta.

00;28;29;20 - 00;28;51;29
Speaker 2
So as we mentioned, we've still been negotiating to to. Find some type of alternative voluntary agreement, which we think would be good for the Tuolumne, because if we come to an agreement quickly, we can start making those investments right away, you know, to spend the money on improving habitat, to putting more flow in the river, to bringing

00;28;51;29 - 00;29;07;07
Speaker 2
back that salmon population much quicker to the delays by the state of California is only so much further behind in trying to improve the fishery conditions on the Tuolumne. And then to come the last thing that happened the end of last year or the middle of last year.

00;29;08;04 - 00;29;25;06
Speaker 2
FERC approved what's called a final environmental impact statement, which basically says we've reviewed all the studies and analysis you provided, provided us for relicensing process, and these are what we see as the impacts of the environment and these are the mitigation measures for those impacts.

00;29;25;18 - 00;29;43;13
Speaker 2
And these are your potential, what we call articles of a license. So these are your terms and conditions for a potential license. And interestingly enough, FERC generally saw the world the way we did it, looked at our studies, found the science to be good, found our mitigation measures to be reasonable.

00;29;43;27 - 00;29;57;22
Speaker 2
And so most of what FERC is proposing to be in our future license aligns very closely with the science and the information that was developed through those 35 studies. So we felt we have a very favorable environmental impact statement.

00;29;58;05 - 00;30;03;06
Speaker 2
Again, it's not just good for Turlock Irrigation District in the region. It's also good for the Toulumne.

00;30;04;17 - 00;30;20;16
Speaker 1
Absolutely. And that's encouraging, too, to get that that sort of a response from FERC. So then looking at kind of what we have ahead of us, you mentioned that the hold up really kind of lies with the state.

00;30;20;16 - 00;30;27;24
Speaker 1
But what what are some of the current roadblocks that we're facing or the next steps that we're looking to take?

00;30;28;11 - 00;30;43;25
Speaker 2
Right. So we've got two steps left in the process, basically, or two approvals. We need to get we need to get approval from the state water board. And we also need to finish up what's a consultation with National Marine Fisheries under Section seven of the Federal Endangered Species Act.

00;30;43;25 - 00;31;07;05
Speaker 2
So those two processes are kind of in the various stages right now. Those are the two last hurdles we have to get over before FERC can issue a final license. One of the challenges is the state of California under Section 401 of the Clean Water Act has to provide us with what's called a water quality certification as

00;31;07;05 - 00;31;31;12
Speaker 2
a way to make sure we don't have any adverse impacts upon the various water quality standards for the for the river basin in the Tuolumne, in the Delta. And although we didn't have an application in front of them, the State Water Board issued as a41 certification, which was basically a way to implement the Bay Delta Plan and

00;31;31;12 - 00;31;48;11
Speaker 2
the SED and as well as a number of other new requirements that kind of came out of left field and caught us by surprise. So right now we're in litigation with the State Water Board both in state and federal court over that action and the process that went on before that.

00;31;49;14 - 00;32;03;08
Speaker 2
It's a way to say, hold on a second. You didn't follow the right process. We've given you this information for a while. You should've issued us a certification some time ago. It's consistent with what's allowed in the Federal Power Act.

00;32;03;19 - 00;32;16;29
Speaker 2
So we're working our way through that right now. So that's one of the other wrinkles we're working on. And again, we still have to work on consultation with National Marine Fisheries, too, but a number of positive things have really happened.

00;32;16;29 - 00;32;31;29
Speaker 2
We've worked out an agreement with the Bureau of Land Management, also worked out an agreement of the US Fish and Wildlife Service. So we're actually looking at doing an early implementation project. As I mentioned, the longer relicensing goes.

00;32;33;00 - 00;32;50;12
Speaker 2
More frustrating it is because we can't move ahead with some of the things we want to do on the river. So we voluntarily agreed to work with U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service on a $4 million pilot project to improve habitat on the Tuolumne, as a way to show that these types of habitat improvement projects that we

00;32;50;12 - 00;33;10;19
Speaker 2
have in the Tuolumne River management plan will make a difference in to in terms of improving the salmon populations. So MID, TID, and the city and county of San Francisco or or equally putting together, you know, a third of $4 million and working with U.S. Fish and Wildlife on developing a project or two on the Tuolumne that

00;33;10;19 - 00;33;19;17
Speaker 2
we can show as a demonstration to show the show the world, basically, that what we put in the river management plan will make a difference.

00;33;20;05 - 00;33;22;04
Speaker 1
Quite literally, putting our money where our mouth is.

00;33;22;11 - 00;33;23;10
Speaker 2
That's exactly right.

00;33;24;13 - 00;33;31;22
Speaker 1
All right. And so if you had to venture a best guess as to when we might actually reach a final license, what would you think?

00;33;32;25 - 00;33;44;04
Speaker 2
Well, like all these things, it's a long process and there's good days and bad days. On a good day, I'd say, Hey, we're a year or two away from a bad day. I could say we're four or five years away.

00;33;44;15 - 00;34;01;08
Speaker 2
It really depends on creating some movement with the state of California. We respond to the state's request to provide a comprehensive approach to improving the Tuolumne that goes way beyond flow. But what they're asking for right now is even beyond that.

00;34;02;21 - 00;34;14;01
Speaker 2
We've been trying to work an agreement with them for the last two years, and we're just really eager to get back to the table with the state of California to implement some improvements to the Tuolumne and move as quickly as possible.

00;34;15;12 - 00;34;28;09
Speaker 2
We've always been on the table. We want to stay at the table. We feel if we can hammer home that that that agreement with the state of California and get that behind us, that will then help us with the National Marine Fisheries.

00;34;28;26 - 00;34;47;18
Speaker 2
And again, that will be the way forward. But I think the state is doing the right thing in terms of they're talking to all the water agencies in northern California. So the on the Sacramento and its tributaries, as well as the San Joaquin River and trying to come up with a global agreement that we can or put

00;34;47;18 - 00;35;01;27
Speaker 2
some water and habitat improvement projects in some science to improve conditions in the delta. And we're all we're all for that. So if we can hammer that agreement, it'd be good for the state. It'll be good for everybody.

00;35;01;29 - 00;35;15;26
Speaker 2
Just as you know, the more partners you have an agreement, more challenging it could be. So if we get that behind us, you know, that will be fantastic. If it gets dragged out, it gets litigated. And, you know, everybody loses in the end, which is not good.

00;35;16;12 - 00;35;36;04
Speaker 1
Mm hmm. There is just so much to the relicensing process and so many different layers. And as you mentioned, collaboration and cooperation necessary from so many different entities. Is there anything that we haven't yet covered with regard to the relicensing process?

00;35;38;02 - 00;35;53;05
Speaker 2
No, it's just that it's multifaceted. And I've spoken a lot about, you know, fishery conditions and salmon conditions. But, you know, recreational facilities are important to this. You know, competitive recreational agency is part of this process. We had to study whitewater rafting.

00;35;53;15 - 00;36;11;23
Speaker 2
And what improvements could we make to the river to improve whitewater rafting? So one of the projects will be doing once we get a license is to improve the rafting take out at Woods Ferry Bridge to make things safer for for the rafters and also help them remove the rafts from the river.

00;36;11;23 - 00;36;21;03
Speaker 2
So there's so many things that go with relicensing to improve the quality of life for the entire region is sometimes we forget those things too.

00;36;21;18 - 00;36;28;17
Speaker 1
And it really is a very comprehensive approach to river stewardship in all facets.

00;36;29;04 - 00;36;47;19
Speaker 2
What people don't realize is that we license Don Pedro as a huge responsibility for the directors, for the district, for everybody, and they don't take that burden lightly. And they really want to put, you know, the district on stable footing to go forward in the future.

00;36;48;04 - 00;37;07;05
Speaker 2
To get a long term license is beneficial for the growers. Our power customers and everybody who lives and work here works here. I've never seen them be obstinate. They're always they're just working hard to get a license as reasonable for the district, but have always been focused on science.

00;37;07;05 - 00;37;22;24
Speaker 2
So let's get the best available information. Make sure the decisions that are made are defensive or unjustifiable based on the best available information. And again, they want to protect our local economy and our most important public asset, which is down.

00;37;22;24 - 00;37;40;07
Speaker 2
Pedro. And remember, too, that the cities of Ceres and Turlock are working on a drinking water project right now that will bring, you know, safe, reliable, high quality drinking water to those two communities that will put them in good stead for the long term future.

00;37;40;21 - 00;37;53;12
Speaker 2
And that's a big investment of the district's resources in that. But it's the right thing to do in terms of regional benefit. So again, they're trying to protect a local economy in our local population.

00;37;55;03 - 00;38;17;10
Speaker 1
And anyone who listen to our episode to podcast about the Don Pedro project itself would understand the many different benefits that that project brings to our our local communities. And I think you have applied for us perfectly how the relicensing process touches on each one of those benefits of the Don Pedro project.

00;38;17;10 - 00;38;28;06
Speaker 1
So I think that was an important correlation to make. Thank you for that. As we get close to wrapping up here, any final thoughts on the relicensing process that you wanted to share?

00;38;28;26 - 00;38;43;17
Speaker 2
No. I mean, it's just, you know, a Turlock irrigation district is a publicly owned utility, Don Pedro's a community owned facility. And we're trying to get the best outcome we can for the district and our partners and the ecosystem.

00;38;43;29 - 00;38;51;01
Speaker 2
So I just encourage the public to remain engaged, stay involved and wishes wishes well.

00;38;51;28 - 00;38;54;15
Speaker 1
Excellent. Michael, thank you so much for being with us today.

00;38;54;21 - 00;38;56;02
Speaker 2
You're very welcome, Constance.

00;38;57;08 - 00;39;14;14
Speaker 1
Thank you for tuning in to the TID water and Power podcast. You can find TID on Facebook at Facebook.com/TurlockID on Instagram and Twitter @TurlockID and on LinkedIn as the Turlock Irrigation District. I'm your host, Constance Anderson.

00;39;14;18 - 00;39;15;23
Speaker 1
We'll see you again next time.